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 Carolina and Florida agree on a bigger trade

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stadnyk

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PostSubject: Carolina and Florida agree on a bigger trade   Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:12 pm

Divisional foes Carolina Hurricanes and Florida Panthers agree on a 3 player deal that sends C-Jordan Staal to the Hurricanes while the Panters recieve a pair of outstanding Defenseman in Jamie McBain and Brett Carson
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Carolina_GM

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PostSubject: Re: Carolina and Florida agree on a bigger trade   Sat Jun 20, 2009 2:52 am

Carolina agrees
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PostSubject: Re: Carolina and Florida agree on a bigger trade   Sun Jun 21, 2009 1:19 am

Wish I had known I could get Jordan Staal for a couple of mediocre prospects....
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PostSubject: Re: Carolina and Florida agree on a bigger trade   Sun Jun 21, 2009 1:35 am

St._Louis_GM wrote:
Wish I had known I could get Jordan Staal for a couple of mediocre prospects....

Well.. give a legitimate argument. Tell us why you think this deal isn't fair. That's the idea, it gets GM's more involved.

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PostSubject: Re: Carolina and Florida agree on a bigger trade   Sun Jun 21, 2009 2:06 am

No, its definitely fair. Both GM's agreed to it.
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PostSubject: Re: Carolina and Florida agree on a bigger trade   Sun Jun 21, 2009 2:07 am

He makes a point. Staal is young and already good, he's going to be a star in the league. A 7.0 and 7.5 don't really seem to cut it. This deal could use a first round pick added, IMHO.
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PostSubject: Re: Carolina and Florida agree on a bigger trade   Sun Jun 21, 2009 2:07 am

St. Louis, both GM's agreeing doesn't necessarily make something "fair".
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PostSubject: Re: Carolina and Florida agree on a bigger trade   Sun Jun 21, 2009 10:04 am

I will just say that I have never heard of Jamie McBain before, and that Staal has 81SC and I don't understand this all that much. I offered something as well, not saying he should go for mine or wtv, but this can only hurt Florida in my opinion.
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PostSubject: Re: Carolina and Florida agree on a bigger trade   Sun Jun 21, 2009 10:10 am

I think if this was an NHL stats based sim, this deal would be a little "closer". Both players have some long term potential, and their stock is on the rise. I can see someone having a "hunch" about them and wanting to pick them up before they made a name for themselves. Also if this was a stats based sim, Staal wouldn't be quite as valuable because he's going to have trouble picking up points being stuck behind Malkin and Crosby.

But the way we have the league set up, a 7.0 and 7.5 (neither of whom are going to ever sniff 8 or 8.5) for a player who's already an 81sc and only 22 just doesn't seem right.

One question, and I don't mean to insult Florida here, but I would like to know the "purpose" of this trade. Are you trying to rebuild? I would think Staal is someone you would rebuild around. If not, I would want some top-end talent back.
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PostSubject: Re: Carolina and Florida agree on a bigger trade   Sun Jun 21, 2009 11:31 am

First of all, this is a great discussion and I appreciate the fact that the boards have come alive with this topic. Having said that, you guys all present good arguements, Staal is a good player and all that was said by the GM's in this topic I agree with...but here's my opinion:

First of all, I was offered the deal and at first I thought "Wow, this is a steal of a deal that won't go through" so then I decided to research the players requested by the Florida GM.

Jamie McBain:
7.5B (HF)
Future


"McBain announced he is returning for his junior season and will again be looked to for leadership and poise on the Wisconsin back end. Snagging McBain late in the second round of the 2006 draft is looking like a steal for Carolina".

According to the HF site this kid is going to be a good player for the Hurricanes and his stock is rising.

Brett Carson
7.0C (HF)

Future


"Carson is a smooth-skating defenseman with solid defensive play and a hint of offensive potential. "

Based on what I read on this prospect he is going to be a great rounded player.

My analysis of this trade:

Jordan Staal is 22 years old and has promise, he's rated a 66 OV which is far from being tagged a "Superstar" but he's going to be a great 2nd line centre for my team behind Backstrom who is a "Star" at 23 years old and rated 75 OV. One year in the difference and 9 pts difference in OV's which Staal is not going to gain in one season in the NASHL.

McBain and Carson are both rated highly and if they were in this years draft class they would be drafted in the 1st round, so essentially Florida received 2 1st round picks for Jordan Staal, and that in my honest opinion is a good deal.
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PostSubject: Re: Carolina and Florida agree on a bigger trade   Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:27 pm

after reading that on why you made the trade, and taking into account other people's opinions i don't think this trade is as one sided as some may think. However, it just does not seem like a deal that should be allowed to be processed--it is still a bit one sided. maybe adding in a draft pick or decent player/prospect would make it even?
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PostSubject: Re: Carolina and Florida agree on a bigger trade   Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:50 pm

The only reason why some of you think Staal is a superstar which he is'nt he's good but far from a superstar, you guys would'nt be saying the same thing if i traded Taylor Chorney who is rated higher... and the only reason why some of you think Jordan is a star it's all in the name, you cant thank his 2 other brothers especially Eric for paving the way, i'm sure Jared will make it too someday just an average prospect making the bigs because it's all in the last name.
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PostSubject: Re: Carolina and Florida agree on a bigger trade   Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:59 pm

stadnyk, Staal is created. His NHL counterpart has nothing to do with his NASHL stats. With a 66 OV and 81 AV at the age of 22, I think he should warrant more than two mid leval prospects. Unless McBain and Carson rocket up the HF ratings chart, neither will equal close to Staal's value.
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PostSubject: Re: Carolina and Florida agree on a bigger trade   Sun Jun 21, 2009 5:08 pm

Also stadnyk just let me say that I do think Carson and McBain are some very underrated prospects, and look like they are on the upswing. I just think you could have gotten a lot more for Staal.
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PostSubject: Re: Carolina and Florida agree on a bigger trade   Sun Jun 21, 2009 5:10 pm

I was completely only looking at stats when I made my comment. Whoever said he will be a superstar in this league hit the nail on the head. However, why should this trade not be processed? If both gm's agreed to it then who are we to shoot it down? The 24 hour period to dispute a trade is fun for debating it abut others gm's should not be allowed to stop a trade from happening that doesn't even involve them.
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PostSubject: Re: Carolina and Florida agree on a bigger trade   Sun Jun 21, 2009 5:51 pm

florida,

i am not looking at staal just because his name is staal. that certainly had no basis in my prior argument
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PostSubject: Re: Carolina and Florida agree on a bigger trade   Sun Jun 21, 2009 6:12 pm

I'm not saying you were, just IMO Jordan will be an above average player at best nothing more.
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PostSubject: Re: Carolina and Florida agree on a bigger trade   Sun Jun 21, 2009 6:14 pm

understandable, but i think, with his current ratings, that eh will be pretty good, if not very good in this league.
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PostSubject: Re: Carolina and Florida agree on a bigger trade   Sun Jun 21, 2009 8:26 pm

these are all people's opinions on the players involved, basically you need to come up with a reason outlined to James as to why this deal should or shouldn't go ahead as agreed upon by the two confirming GM's.

Other than that, great debate thus far.
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PostSubject: Re: Carolina and Florida agree on a bigger trade   Sun Jun 21, 2009 10:56 pm

If Carson is created this offseason, he will be 24 or 25, and about a 57 or 58 OV.

McBain will be 21, and a 58 or 59.


Staal is 21 and a 66.

Carson will never be more than a third pairing guy in the NASHL, McBain might peak at a top four dman but he's a ways off.

Staal might not be at Backstrom's level, but he's a legit number two center at age 22, and it won't be long before he's a legit number one. He's basically a franchise guy, maybe not a Crosby or Malkin but he's going to be a differance maker in this league.

That's why I object to this trade. Either way, it's up to the TC not us.
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PostSubject: Re: Carolina and Florida agree on a bigger trade   Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:08 am

if you wanted a reason, mr.isles gm just gave you oen.
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PostSubject: Re: Carolina and Florida agree on a bigger trade   Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:16 am

these are all based on estimations...the last word belongs to the Commissioner. In my honest opinion, both GM's are happy, deal done.
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stadnyk

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PostSubject: Re: Carolina and Florida agree on a bigger trade   Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:35 am

Carolina_GM wrote:
these are all based on estimations...the last word belongs to the Commissioner. In my honest opinion, both GM's are happy, deal done.

IMO, there were more lopsided trades then this 1 if you can even call this one lopsided which i dont think it's that bad, i could've complained but never some gm's should look at prior trades they've made and honestly tell me they got a fair shake... this trade is nowhere close or lopsided to being rejected IMO, and i was the 1 that offered the trade.
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PostSubject: Re: Carolina and Florida agree on a bigger trade   Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:46 pm

If both gm's feel strongly about this trade, regardless of everyone's opinion i think we should just let it process. let the gm's improve their teams if they feel it necessary
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PostSubject: Re: Carolina and Florida agree on a bigger trade   Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:30 pm

Unless the trade is just plain ridiculous, I think the trades should be approved. Not everyone will agree with every trade, and if everyone starts questioning the trades based on fairly minor arguments, all that will happen is 1 or both of the GM's involved will feel defensive and basically stupid because everyone will make them feel like they are incapable of making a good trade.

Obviously, some GM's aren't as insightful as others...and this trade is questionable, but both GMS like it, so it should stick.
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